Mythbusting the MTA Fare Hike
Today, the MTA will vote to raise fares again… this time to the tune of 23%. Your monthly Metrocard that cost you $81 this month will cost you $103 in June.
Yes, it’s outrageous. Yes, it’s unfair. But no, it’s not entirely the MTA’s fault. In fact, this fare hike could have been easily prevented by Albany in the past and present, but everyone finds it easy to blame the MTA for this. Stop blaming the MTA, and blame the people who deserve to be blamed.
Myth: The MTA can find the money, somewhere, to stop this hike
When people say this, I ask, how? Nobody has an answer, they just have a feeling. Well, I invite anyone who wants to make this claim to go into the MTA’s financial statements and find enough money to fill their $1.3 billion deficit. It’s not possible. They are out of money. And there’s a good explanation, which brings me to my next myth.
Myth: The MTA is in this deficit because they spend too much on big projects
First off, let’s start by explaining how the MTA actually got into this mess. One of its biggest sources of revenue is real estate transaction taxes. Look at what real estate has done in the past two years. That revenue has barely topped 50% of its projection. If the real estate market was booming, we might not be in as big a mess. Secondly, one of the MTA’s biggest expenses is paying down debt on bonds it took out during the Pataki administration, when the MTA was terribly underfunded and MTA money was diverted to road maintenance. These are two key reasons the MTA has such a huge deficit right now. Neither of those are within the control of the MTA, and especially not the MTA’s current management.
But, onto the “spending on big projects.” Yes, there are several major projects in the construction phase right now: the Second Avenue Subway, the 7 Line Extension, and the East Side Access Project. But let’s say that we stopped work on those projects right now. We would lay off thousands of construction workers, and we’d sit around with empty tunnels for another 30 years. But also, we wouldn’t have an extra dime to spend on the operation of the subway system. Why? Because the construction budget - the MTA’s Capital Budget - is different from its Operating Budget. The Capital Budget gets funding from the federal government and the like, but the Operating Budget is reliant mostly on passenger fares, tax revenue, and any state and local funding it can get its hands on.
So, yes, they’re spending a lot on big projects, but they can’t spend that money on anything else.
Myth: $103 is still a good deal for riders
Okay, in the scheme of things, compared to driving a car, $103 is a good bargain for getting around the city. But we shouldn’t have to pay that much, because nobody else does.
Does that sound whiny and self-righteous? Probably, but let me explain. The New York City subway has the highest farebox recovery ratio of any public transit system in the United States. That is, the MTA relies on our passenger fares for over 73% of its revenue for the subway. As a basis for comparison, Chicago’s CTA has a ratio of 44%, LA County’s Metro has a ratio of 30%, and the lowly Staten Island Railroad’s passenger fares account for just 15% of its revenue. Where does the rest of its revenue come from? Mostly from state subsidies. And as we’ve already addressed, Albany gutted the MTA’s funding years ago.
Now, the state is making us pay more instead of adopting a system that would find a reasonable alternate revenue stream for the MTA: East River Bridge Tolls.
Myth: Putting a $2 toll on the East River bridges would be unfair to the poor and would hinder open access to the city
This is the stance that politicians who opposed these tolls have taken, and it’s absurd. I could make plenty of arguments about drivers paying their fair share, cars contributing to pollution and congestion, and the fact that my tax dollars subsidize the maintenance of the roads that drivers use even though I don’t own a car. But let’s just cut to the chase: those who opposed adding a $2 toll to the East River bridges would rather see transit riders pay an additional 23% for their commute while car drivers get off scot-free.
Tell me, who do you think can afford to spend more money: a car owner who drives to their job in Manhattan, or someone who rides the subway every day? Nine times out of ten, it’s the former. Car owners make more money than subway riders, plain and simple.
The second part of this myth is a new point that has surfaced recently. The newest argument against East River tolls has been that it would cut off Manhattan from the rest of the city, and would keep the five boroughs from being “open and accessible.”
This is absurd for two reasons: first of all, to anyone who doesn’t own a car, New York is already not “open and accessible.” I have to pay a subway fare (coincidentally, $2) to get to any other borough. Secondly, access between boroughs is already tolled, thanks to the Henry Hudson, Triborough, Bronx-Whitestone, Throgs Neck, Verazanno Narrows, and Marine Parkway Bridges, and the Queens Midtown and Brooklyn Battery Tunnels… all of which are more expensive to cross than the proposed toll on the East River bridges.
Myth: Adding tolls to the East River bridges will impact the cost of goods in Manhattan
This is a simple mathematics equation. Let’s say you have a small box truck that’s carrying half of its payload in tomatoes (roughly two tons). That small box truck would pay a $10 toll in the current plan. Let’s assume that the entire toll will be passed on to the consumer. How much more would a pound of tomatoes cost? ONE QUARTER OF A CENT.
Of course, I forgot to mention that the tolls will likely take some cars off the road in Mahattan, making it easier for this truck to make its deliveries quickly without getting caught in traffic. So you might actually save close to $10 in labor costs for that truck driver.
Also, in March of 2008, the Port Authority raised the tolls on its Hudson River crossings by $2 for cars (more, naturally, for trucks). The inflationary change in the consumer cost of food between March and April in New York was 0.9%. This matched the national average. And by the way, a lot more of our food comes from New Jersey and west than from Long Island.
Myth: Adding tolls to the East River bridges will cause more congestion because of the addition of toll booths.
NO! NO, NO, NO, NO! I cannot believe the amount of times I’ve heard this argument, even from the most educated people. Have you ever heard of E-ZPass? Believe it or not, that technology can collect a toll at normal speeds, too. For those who do not have E-ZPass, cameras will capture their license plate numbers and they will be billed via mail. You may think that’s some pie-in-the-sky advanced technology, but it’s actually been around in North America for 12 years.
So, let me reiterate: THERE WILL BE NO TOLL BOOTHS ON THE BRIDGES.
Myth: The MTA can just fire all those employees who do absolutely nothing all day
In a perfect world, this wouldn’t be a myth. As transit riders, we all see the waste firsthand, as employees sleep on the job, stand around and do nothing, and sit in their little booths and ignore customers. Believe me, I can guarantee you that many of the MTA board members wish they could lay off 10-20% of the MTA’s workforce to turn up the revenue they need.
First of all, in a time like this, do you think it’s politically expedient to lay off thousands of people in this economy, even if they could? Probably not.
But more importantly, the Transport Workers Union (TWU) and other labor unions representing transit employees have such a stranglehold on the MTA that there’s virtually no way to end this waste unless the MTA went private. It’s a terrible situation, but being opposed to unions is so politically unpopular in this city that nobody would be willing to take that stand publicly. Do you remember the last time the MTA asked for concessions from the union? We ended up walking to work in the brutal cold for three days.
Myth: The MTA keeps “two sets of books”
On Monday, during the MTA’s finance committee meeting, MTA chairman Dale Hemmerdinger said, “we must get away from this notion that the MTA keeps two sets of books.” Why? Because it’s just not true. It was an accusation made of the MTA by Alan Hevesi six years ago - a charge that was resolved in court. And the board of the MTA should be offended by this accusation, since none of the members of the MTA’s leadership were in power back when this scandal broke in 2003. And in response to the scandal, the MTA became much more transparent, releasing all of their financial statements on their web site, and even holding webcasts about their finances.
But that’s not enough to satisfy the masses, apparently. Riders would rather get mad at the MTA for a six year-old scandal than blame Albany, who knew for a year that this crisis was coming, waited until the last minute to rush a proposal through the legislature, and then decide to do nothing and let the transit riding public suffer through massive fare hikes because educated politicians in Albany still believe that the MTA keeps two sets of books, no matter how many times they’re told otherwise.
Myth: Albany has the most corrupt, unopen, and incompetant state government in the entire country and voters need to clean house
Actually, yeah, that’s entirely true. Please, call your State Senator now and demand that the state fully fund transit.
This entry was posted on Wednesday, March 25th, 2009 at 10:55 am and is filed under Subway Stupidity. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
March 25th, 2009 at 11:57 am
shannon says:Spot on post about why the MTA is raising fares and why Albany is to blame.
March 25th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
Jennifer says:Okay, in the scheme of things, compared to driving a car, $103 is a good bargain for getting around the city. But we shouldn’t have to pay that much, because nobody else does.
I live in DC and pay 3.20 each way to get to work on the metro. That’s 6.40 per day, and there is no monthly pass. I’m not saying you should have to pay more, I think everybody should pay less, I’m just saying that the above statement isn’t exactly true.
March 25th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
(Australian) Alice says:Well written Chris - I now feel so informed!
Do I still have to pay extra for a Metro Card? Yes.
Do I feel better knowing where to best channel my rage? Indeed.
March 25th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
Madcat says:Really impressive post - thanks for this.
March 25th, 2009 at 2:29 pm
Marcus says:The reason people don’t trust the MTA is because in the past they have cried poverty only to “find” hundreds of millions of dollars.
This happened shortly before the strike a few years back. The greedy union workers felt that some of the money should go to them.
Instead of investing the money in the future or projects, the MTA wasted millions of offering reduce fare rides. Stupid.
Lastly, thousands of those worthless, greedy, uneducated workers should be laid off. I would put up with a 1 year strike to see that union broken.
March 25th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
MercuryPDX says:A monthly pass for our C-Tran bus is $105.
http://www.c-tran.com/fares.html
The bus I would use only operates until 7:10PM.
You don’t know how good you really have it back there. Public transit out here (Portland/Vancouver Metro Area) is not nearly as well laid out and useful.
March 25th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
Mythbusting the MTA fare hike :: Second Ave. Sagas | A New York City Subway Blog says:[…] advance of the MTA Board’s approval of the 23 percent fare hike, he penned an excellent piece disputing some common misconceptions about the state of the MTA’s finances. I was getting set to write a very similar post, and Chris offered to allow me to reproduce […]
March 25th, 2009 at 2:56 pm
Chris says:Marcus: That “found” money was not “found.” It was a result of unexpectedly high real estate transaction tax revenue that exceeded the MTA’s projections in 2005. At that time, the real estate market was booming. While they may have lacked the foresight to invest the money into the system, if they hadn’t passed the money on to the riders, the riders would’ve complained anyway.
Coincidentally, that same revenue source is what’s causing the MTA’s deficit to grow so large right now. But nobody’s clamoring that money is “missing” right now.
March 25th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
NYSICK says:YOU Truly are an idiot. MTA should be blamed. The Hiring..no firing, the lack of service (and when I mean the lack of service I am referring to waiting on a crowded platform to 10 mins waiting for R during rush hour) MTA Pays people to do shit. rather than laying off people and hiring people at a lower salary (BTW why is starting salary over 40k for some one with a High School Diploma when some one with a BA in certain feild are lucky to get in the mid 30s). We all know that with these hikes the MTA service will not change..but get worse. If thats the case I dont want to pay more for less..I will take the china town bus from now on..at least those guys are worth what I give them in fees
March 25th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
Chris says:NYSICK: Um, did you even bother reading this article? Especially the part about the Transport Workers Union? Obviously not.
Again, you’re just proving my point. People are quick to blame the MTA because they don’t educate themselves about the real problems. You obviously have no idea how a labor union works, or else you’d know that everything you’re blaming the MTA for is out of the MTA’s control.
March 25th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
Courtney says:Chris- out of curiosity, were you for the driving surcharge for NYC?
March 25th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
Chris says:Courtney: Do you mean Congestion Pricing? Yes, I was. In fact, had Congestion Pricing passed, the MTA would not be in this mess at all.
March 25th, 2009 at 5:22 pm
An Interesting Take on the Fare Hike. « Smichovsky Compensation Syndrome says:[…] An Interesting Take on the Fare Hike. Filed under: Uncategorized — Tags: Broadway, metrocard, MTA fare hike, new york city — Kristoffer @ 6:14 pm From East Village Idiot: […]
March 25th, 2009 at 5:42 pm
Sean Fitch says:I think we need to let the MTA go bankrupt and that will rid the MTA of their issue with the Labor unions. It is the labor unions are caused this defecit and not albany.
March 25th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
Chris says:Sean Fitch: The subway is the city’s lifeline. It cannot be allowed to go bankrupt, no matter what good it does for the MTA’s ties to the TWU. It would be an economic nightmare for this city.
If you’re suggesting that the system be privatized, what company in this economy would have the money or will to purchase its assets? And how will fares stay affordable when a privatized MTA no longer receives federal or state funding for its operating or capital budgets?
The structure we have now may not be ideal, but it’s a lot better than the other possible options.
March 25th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
e_in_nyc says:It is £99.10 for an inner London pass, £116 for a little further out (1-3, which is pretty fair for most people’s housing). It is quite impressive that the MTA is catching up - only another $40 a month to go.
March 25th, 2009 at 6:27 pm
Jefferson Davis says:Let’s secede from the state! What does the state of New York do for us besides regulate and tax us silly? Upstate New York is truly a dump, I’ve driven through it before, spent some time up there. NYC is already the fourth largest government in the U.S. (1. Fed govt, 2. State of California, 3. State of New York) and we have a lot of redundant agencies already.
Also, why not collect a fare from Staten Island ferry riders, to subsidize the MTA? Ferries aren’t inexpensive, anyone who owns a personal boat knows how much they cost to repair, I can’t imagine how much the city pays to operate and maintain the ferry fleet.
If they raise the fares for subways/buses, trains, and bridge tolls, 1) what is the estimated revenue? and 2) for what period of time can the MTA assure its customers that it will not raise fares again?
What is the MTA’s plan for paying the bond holders when the bonds that they issued for 2nd Ave Subway, East Side Access, and 7 Extension mature?
March 25th, 2009 at 7:16 pm
Roberto C. Tobar says:Where’s the love for Long Island? Nassau County residents like me are going to get STIFLED - especially on the LI Bus (which will be $3.50 for a single ride, with unlimited ride Metrocards disallowed - thanks for nothing, MTA). I certainly won’t ride the bus again if that’s what happens. Which is too bad because I don’t drive.
This doomsday thing is beyond reprehensible. I don’t think anyone should be defended. MTA, Senate, Paterson, they’re all to blame. I just don’t think the MTA is in as big a mess as they say they are (though again, that is one of those myths you mentioned). I’m sure lots of NYers (especially LIers) are going to get the hell out of NY first chance they get.
March 25th, 2009 at 9:40 pm
Todd says:Excellent article!
March 25th, 2009 at 9:53 pm
mnemo says:Sure you bring up some good points, but your points about the bridges are unrealistic. You can’t count on everyone to have an EZ-pass, so there will be toll booths on these bridges if they implement them. What good is it for them to toll the bridges over a fare hike when it’s obvious that there are many more subway riders over drivers? Sure they can start tolling the last free interconnecting routes between boroughs only to raise fares anyway because it is just inevitable in progress. I’d much rather protect what free things we have left, because once it’s not free, it never will be.
March 25th, 2009 at 10:32 pm
Chris says:mnemo: Did you bother to read my post at all?
March 26th, 2009 at 2:30 am
George Romaka says:I was trying to have this discussion with a co-worker yesterday. He wouldn’t buy it.
“My brother in law works for the MTA and he’s a lazy…”
Yeah, the MTA isn’t blameless, but it’s not ALL their fault. There’s more than enough responsible parties that we can spread the hate around a little bit.
March 26th, 2009 at 7:17 am
mnemo says:To assume they will bill everyone without an EZ-pass by mail is foolish. Not only will it be more costly to implement but it’s a bad way to depend on cash. If funds are their main priority, they can’t wait for an estimated amount of money to appear in the mail weeks later, especially from people out of state. The only time I’ve seen a system like that in place is when someone runs a red light or runs a toll without paying. The only way EZ-pass gets to work is because they pre-bill you, so they already have your money. So you can’t just assume they’ll use a system like that.
March 26th, 2009 at 7:32 am
Chris says:mnemo: You’re an idiot. Do you think I just made that up? You haven’t seen it before, so it doesn’t exist? It’s been in use since 1997 in Toronto on the 407 ETR. Also, it’s IN THE RAVITCH PLAN!
Again, THERE WILL BE NO TOLL BOOTHS ON THE BRIDGES.
March 26th, 2009 at 8:45 am
Jim says:Chris, go easy on mnemo and the other educationally challenged folks who have trouble reading, let alone understand a bit of economics.
I have sent the link to your post to my State Senator, but since I’m sure he’s on board already, I asked him to distribute it to his recalcitrant colleague’s upstate. I hope that they can read and understand it though.
Just to try to explain something to mnemo, assuming s/he reads this far:
Regarding “free” stuff, people, especially those in cars, need to understand that there is no such thing. We could try to abolish taxes, but then we wouldn’t have roads (never mind bridges) and a lot of other things.
To make a densely populated city work (and many argue, any really environmentally sustainable lifestyle), we need to reduce congestion. There are two very important ways to do this, and both should be pursued simultaneously. We need to bring some of the real costs of driving to automobile users (congestion pricing, bridge tolls, market pricing of parking, etc.) and invest in pleasant and practical mass transit options.
This is why (without even getting into the arguments regarding economic stimulus in a downturn), the MTA plan is horrible in two ways. In my mind, the fare hikes are annoying (everyone sees that differently) but the service cuts are inexcusable. We need to be increasing service, not decreasing it.
Thanks for a great post!
March 26th, 2009 at 9:10 am
plumpdumpling says:I LOVE this post. I wrote a little something for all the people who complain about how mind-blowingly high the new unlimited pass will be (http://www.examiner.com/x-3830-NY-Public-Transportation-Examiner~y2009m3d4-Whats-the-big-deal-about-an-MTA-fare-hike), but I appreciate your argument all the same.
I don’t know what the solution is here (nor what led to the problem, really), but after living in Ohio most of my life, I’d pay a hell of a lot more than $103 to see the subways and buses survive.
March 26th, 2009 at 9:47 am
maxtm » Up goes the fare says:[…] that are commonly believed by the MTA but are simply not true. East Village Idiots has a great list. Still, I doubt the MTA will win the PR war anytime […]
March 26th, 2009 at 10:20 am
Michelle says:A $2 East River bridges fee to get into Manhattan sounds like a good idea. Also, increase car registration fees and charge more for gas guzzlers.
In general, I am amazed at how much the subway costs considering how bad the service is. When the tornado hit BK a few years ago and the subways flooded there was NO communication about where to go and what to do. Terrible. The MTA and the Post Office (off topic, I know, but still irritating) are simply unacceptable.
March 26th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
Sarah says:Excellent post, Chris.
I was cracking up reading comments in the NYT yesterday from the upstaters bitching about how *they* don’t use the subway, so why should the state support it? As if the Road Fairy casts pixie dust over the state at night and the roads and other infrastructure necessary to support their sprawl springs up by magic!
March 26th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
Eric says:Sorry, while the state government is a horrid corrupt pile of trash, it is absolutely ridiculous for the MTA to need to raise fares yet again, during a time of record-breaking ridership - a fire hazard in fact!
Lets see here, the average E train has over 400 people per car (I’m well aware the official “capacity” is less than 180, but to say people are crammed in like sardines is an understatement. I’ve counted, and 400+ really is typical). That’s 4000 people per 10 car train. Lets be generous and assume the average rider is on there 2 hours before being replaced by another fare. That’s 48,000 fares or $96,000 in fares ***per day per train***, in addition to the ridiculous sums of money they already get from taxes and literal highway robbery (bridge tolls). When that is included we’re easily talking about over $250,000 PER TRAIN PER DAY. Not per line, per TRAIN, with 2 MTA employees on it. Even ignoring the $$ they get from tolls & taxes, you’re still talking about over $35 MILLION per year from EACH 10 car train, or $3.5 MILLION PER YEAR PER CAR. You can’t seriously suggest for even a second that it costs over $3.5 MILLION PER YEAR PER circa 1960 car that they haven’t even cleaned once over the past 50 years.
March 26th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
Chris says:Eric: Your math is terrible. 400 people cannot cram into any subway car, not every single train is crammed to its maximum capacity, and very few passengers ride the subway for two hours at a time. Also, very few passengers actually pay $2 per ride, since monthly passes discount a subway ride to below $2 after 20 days of commuting to and from work.
So, at your estimated $35 million a year per train (and by the way, the average age of the MTA’s rolling stock is nowhere close to the 49 years you’re suggesting), times 600 trains, give or take, in the NYCT system, gives you $21 BILLION in farebox revenue.
Guess what the MTA actually takes in from farebox revenue from the subway system? $3 BILLION in 2008.
So your math is only off by, oh, 700%. But who knows how to manage the MTA’s finances better? You, apparently.
March 26th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
jp says:Idiot. You don’t like paying taxes to maintain roads because you don’t have a car? what about EVERY consumable item you stuff into your fat face that is delivered via road? What about emergency services or police that drive on roads to save your stupid fat ass?
March 26th, 2009 at 4:31 pm
Chris says:jp: That’s real mature. If you want to have a meaningful discussion about this, you can start by not acting like a child.
But then again, you’d rather just start a flamewar over one thing I wrote that you disagree with.
March 26th, 2009 at 9:31 pm
Infrequent Blog Digest by Kicking Ass Ann Arbor says:[…] this. Some New Yorkers are complaining about rate hikes on those underground trains. Here is a good Myth/Fact sheet about MTA rate […]
March 27th, 2009 at 9:45 am
Justin Samuels says:Chris, where are you from originally? That might help in this. NYC’s subway system goes to hell every time the economy in NYC seriously goes down.
Neither Washington nor Albany will give much help, period. As for the unions, the MTA will make severe cutbacks where possible. They are eliminating 35 bus routes, that’s a number of union employees out the door. They are shutting down the R stations in lower Manhattan and Brooklyn at night. They are eliminating the Z and W trains.
Once instituted, these changes are permanent. The J train used to have 24 hour service all the way down to Broad Street, now the J only goes to Chamber Street on weekends, and it’s been this way for 20 years.
You’re saying Albany should hand over more money to the MTA, but in the 1970s, when businesses though the tax in NYC was too high (1/7 of city residents worked for the city government and 1/7 were on welfare) they moved out of NYC! WIth massive unemployment, crime spiraled up!
The MTA is not a sacred cow that gets to get unlimited funds from the government. If they have to make draconian cuts in services, let them do it (now long island buses will cost 3.50 to ride and they will no longer take unlimited metro cards).
Oh, and I agree with you, this decline in the subway service will cause economic damage to the city. Fine. That’s the end of all these gentrified neighborhoods, and with the resulting damage, real estate prices will go down. And I’m all happy about it.
March 27th, 2009 at 9:49 am
Tyler says:Well done Chris. While I agree with your position, and I’m glad you supplied more facts than I previously knew, I’m still a long way from trusting the MTA. That comes with time.
It’s pretty clear the state is the problem here, and that there is no broad consensus capable of being built. Whether its a leadership issue, or overall lack of political will or smarts I don’t know. But folks in the city are paying the price for it.
To the genius that wrote that all of upstate is a dump—
Really, you’ve seen it all? You’ve seen all 62 counties? Lots of Upstate is beautiful. Lots of the city is a dump. Midtown smells like a Yankee Stadium bathroom from late March to Early October. You don’t get that upstate.
Grow a brain. Maybe READ what Chris has been writing, and you’ll be off to a good start.
March 27th, 2009 at 11:26 am
nygrump says:Its really about creating a surveillance system to record all traffic into Manhattan. They are obsessed with this. If we didn’t have to send $100 billion to kill poor brown people maybe we’d have some extra cash around to support the Homeland. The citizens have already paid for those bridges, it is just wron gto demand we pay again. There seem to be a group of posters who think MTA workers should be living in poverty.
March 27th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
Justin Samuels says:I think the MTA has services that are redundant. Buses run up 6th avenue, while there’s a subway underneathe. From 34th and 8th avenue I can take a bus uptown to Harlem, and not even get on the 8th avenue subway that goes that way.
I know some disabled and elderly people can’t take the subway, and for those we should keep and maybe even expand those Access A Ride buses. But able body adults do not need to ride the bus when there are subways nearby, so thank god the MTA is eliminating 35 bus routes.
And let’s be for real, these cutbacks, like the laying off of token booth clerks, was something the MTA has wanted to do for a long time. But everytime the MTA tried to reduce expenses by getting rid of boothes or getting rid of conductors, people COMPLAIN.
This recession is restoring reality to this process. Either the MTA is going to have to seriously cut back expenditures (such as eliminating unnecessary bus routes, employees and even subway lines we don’t need like the W and the Z), or it’s going to take massive tax hikes to support the system as is.
The Ravitch commission wasn’t rejected just because they wanted to put tolls on east river bridges, across the 12 county metro NY, they wanted to raise PAYROLL taxes on EVERYONE!
And that’s just not gonna fly.
The Republicans are united in their opposition, and some democrats also oppose this, so this won’t pass the senate. Some of the senators also said that felt the MTA attempted to blackmail them (You must give us this money and you can’t question us on how it’s needed).
And by the way, Chris, if the unions are so awful, and if the debt service payments are so bad, then the MTA needs to do a chapter 11 and declare bankrucpy. A judge during bankrupcy court could invalidate the union contracts and renegotiate the debt.
Would it hurt the metro area? You bet, but the metro area is going to be really hurt no matter what.
You seem to be apologizing for the MTA, and again, it’s not entitled to every penny it wants when only private companies are facing big budget cutbacks, universities and even SCHOOLS are having to lay off people. Other government agencies are having to cutback as well.
March 27th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
magickat says:This was EXCELLENT.
March 27th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
DCFearless says:Well done. My commute expense in DC is $50/month not including social stuff around the city. Sure, they’re talking about fare hikes but we have a very complicated revenue stream since WMATA runs both into VA and MD as well as the District. Now that the weather’s warm we can all just walk and save our money to pay down credit card and student debt. Rejoice!
March 28th, 2009 at 9:38 am
Chris says:Justin Samuels: Thanks for putting together an intelligent argument about these service cuts. The biggest thorn in my side about what you said, though, was your claim that “some of the senators also said that felt the MTA attempted to blackmail them (You must give us this money and you can’t question us on how it’s needed).”
That’s my biggest concern with why Albany is to blame here. The MTA has all of its financial statements and budget projections available to the public on the web site. It’s very clear how they needed to use that money, and why they needed it in the first place. Yet these public officials, who are supposed to be representing us, keep harping on the MTA to “open their books.” It dumbfounds me.
Also, yes, there are redundant services, but to cover the deficit, the MTA has proposed eliminating these bus lines and DOUBLING the cost of Access-A-Ride. That’s absolutely atrocious to put another huge burden on people who can afford it the least. In addition, while I agree that these station agents are a huge drain on the system and do virtually nothing, there needs to be some presence in these stations late at night to keep passengers safe… especially now that these passengers will be faced with the prospect of waiting upwards of 30 minutes for a train during the overnight hours.
I agree that the payroll tax is not the best solution, but even the Democrats who opposed the Ravitch plan developed their own proposal that still involved a payroll tax. And some Republicans in the MTA’s service area are suggesting a restoration of the Commuter Tax, which could do far more damage to business in New York City than a fraction of a percentage increase in the payroll tax.
While you make the argument that many other sectors are being forced to make huge cutbacks right now, huge investments are being made in infrastructure nationwide. Without having the money to fund the MTA’s next Capital Plan, thousands of new construction jobs will be lost at a time when we’re trying to promote job growth. On top of this, the Ravitch plan found new and relevant revenue streams for the MTA rather than diverting money from other programs. Any other solution would be despicable given the current state fiscal climate.
I’m not apologizing for the MTA. As I said, there’s plenty of blame to go around, but I’m bothered by people who blame only the MTA for this situation. These are the same people who can’t name their state senators and don’t even know that along with the fare hike will come huge cutbacks in service that will make riding subway more frustrating and more dangerous. The solution is not to let the MTA rot, or else it will take another two decades of restoration and investment to bring the subway back from the dead, just as it did after the 1970s.
March 29th, 2009 at 2:50 am
Justin Samuels says:Chris:
The MTA is going to be forced to cut back operations, period, it’s just a question of what and how much.
After making draconian cuts, you might see the state senators dropping their oppositions to tolls across the bridges.
As for the construction jobs, the funding for the expansion projects like the 2nd Avenue subway and LIRR to grand central comes from a combination of state and federal funds and won’t be affected by the MTA’s operation difficulties.
Arguably, the MTA would have had more money to invest it the train network if they eliminate redundant bus services and get rid of token booth clerks. In fact, how can the MTA ask the state for help if they have not done everything in their power to reduce expenses, including getting rid of some obsolete employees. If you’ve done all that, then you can legitimately ask for help. I tend to think the state senate is inclined to let this happen before they review in additional assistance.
As for security, the police should be able to work out security systems with the MTA. If a crime occurs, all a token booth clerk can do is call the police, they are not going to risk their lives to save you.
Oh, and in certain parts of the outer boroughs, driver’s are a politically powerful bunch, as they tend to vote more and be more involved in local politics. That alone kills Ravitch’s proposals.
March 29th, 2009 at 3:12 am
Ruben Safir says:The 15.2 billion dollar line item entitled LIRR access to Grand Central Station would flat out, if eliminated, give the MTA all the funds it needs. This is not so hard. You have to have a pretty twisted understanding of the world to think that the MTA should spend money on that rather than making sure basic service is maintained or fares raised.
Ruben
March 29th, 2009 at 10:27 am
Justin Samuels says:It would have been insane for the MTA to continue to run red bird cars. Subway trains, airplanes, and other types of transportation equipment are normally retired after 40 years, because by then the repair costs are excessive and by then the equipment has gotten a big return on it’s investment.
And here’s a newsflash, all government agencies and private companies replace equipment from time to time.
As for the electronic signaling on the L, I love it, as I know now how long it takes for the next train to come, and the new trains have electronic announcements with clear voices, instead of conductors who I cannot understand. Late at night the L trains are even run on automation. The MTA can one day use this to lay off the conductors and save money.
It would be foolish to keep the MTA in the stone age with public transportation around the world continues to modernize.
As for the LIRR to grand central, what you fail to understand, Ruben, is the FEDERAL and State governments funded that project, with the explicit agreement that the MTA can only use that money for that project. Ditto for the 2nd Avenue subway. The 7 line extension was paid for by the city.
I’ll also note that NYC built the IND system during the great depression. You don’t stop important infastructure work just because the economy goes down, or else nothing will ever get done.
At any rate, Chris may get his wish. Due to the worsening budget, the state decided to raise takes on wealthy NYers after all. All they have do is convince a few democrats, or maybe few Republicans and you will have tolls on the east river bridges. It may have been that certain state senators where praying that the MTA wouldn’t really institute these cuts, but now that they’ve formally done so, the pressure is on.
March 30th, 2009 at 7:52 pm
David says:What about the revenue the MTa gets on advertisement in the trains and on buses, and the new “moving” advertisements on the manhattan bridge. Cant they just increase it by 20% and raise some revenue that way. Plus cut the overtime for people getting it and hire others. It would def cut overhead expenses.
March 30th, 2009 at 8:32 pm
Nobody says:One thing you miss in your arguments is a sense of history and the emotional meaning of not cutting Manhattan off from the boroughs. I resent you coming here for a couple of years, living the high life in your overpriced hovel (I saw the photos) and thinking you have the answers to a problem that rears its ugly head every decade since the subway was a nickel and privately owned. The same arguments are made, in the same way, the same fights about who is going to pay; you are not inventing this nor solving it with your infinite wisdom gained from being a low level advertising clerk.
We are one city and there needs to be a stand taken to keep it that way, for ease of commerce and inclusiveness for all New York City taxpaying citizens regardless of which borough you live in. This is part of our history, it’s one of those seemingly small things that is important to our overall psyche. The decision not to put tolls on those bridges was made very specifically, not casually and not by accident. We tend to forget the things we’ve learned in the past by thinking we are smarter than our predecessors. We aren’t and we prove it daily with stupid decisions or lack of courage that have decimated New York in such a short time.
That fraction of a penny on your tomatoes will be multiplied by everything you consume as there are no factories in Manhattan any longer, everything is imported. It will feel like Tahiti, or Rockaway Beach, if we are totally cut off from the outside world by tolls. Every taxi ride to the airport and to my mother’s house gets that much more expensive. And, you certainly can get to Queens & Brooklyn for free - walk or take a bicycle. Or, buy yourself a car and enjoy the Williamsburg Bridge’s wind whistling through your thinning hair.
While a toll on the bridges would help keep my mother from coming to visit me, thus being a very positive upside to the issue, it would be a barrier to the inclusiveness that I feel is important to the integrity of New York and one which has been hacked away over the years by greed and avarice. Not everything has or should have a dollar sign attached to it.
Parking taxes are nearly 20%, and it is impossible to have a car and not get ticketed or towed several times a year, unless you never move your car from the garage. However, car registrations could probably be increased without much fuss (it is around $35 per year). There are plenty of creative ways to keep taxing drivers without having to put a toll on the bridges.
Also keep in mind that people with regular jobs tend to pay pretax for the subway with their flex plans, while the working stiffs, students and the retired pay with post tax money, making it even more expensive for those who can afford it least.
So what will happen, fares will be raised by exactly how much they said, Albany will come through with some money, and the bridges will remain toll free.
March 30th, 2009 at 8:48 pm
Chris says:Nobody: So, your argument against tolling is “inclusiveness?” That’s a little misguided, since subway riders already have to pay to enter or leave Manhattan at any given time, and many of this city’s residents do not own cars. I just cannot see the logic in that argument. It states that Manhattan should be inclusive, but only to those who are rich enough to own cars.
Not a single toll opponent has been able to justify their argument that tolls would “cut off boroughs from each other” when there is already a toll that is two and a half times higher than Sheldon Silver’s toll plan on EVERY BRIDGE that connects Queens and The Bronx and the one bridge from Brooklyn to Staten Island.
On top of this, increasing the cost of car registrations is far more hurtful to residents of the outer boroughs. One reason that the East River bridges are targeted is because there are many transit options that run parallel, if not on, these bridges. Charging people in near or distant parts of the outer boroughs who work on Long Island, or New Jersey, or other places that are entirely reliant on a car, is even more divisive. I don’t know why you’d think that’s fair.
And, if you want to play the history card, fine. But times have changed, and difficult times call for difficult actions, even ones that might be hard to swallow.
Also, personal attacks are cheap, childish, and I’m sick of them. I’ve lived here for six years, not “a couple,” and I work hard to barely scrape by and pay rent for my “hovel” while I also spend hours each week studying these very issues that we’re debating. Just because you’ve lived in New York a long time doesn’t mean you’re right, it just means you always think you’re right.